V1.20 test results

Discussion in 'SJ7 Star' started by RBEmerson, Nov 29, 2017.

  1. RBEmerson

    RBEmerson Humbled by events

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    For the most part, V1.20 is very disappointing. The imagery shows significant focus problems. The good news is the revised EIS did a very good job even when going over the "washboard" of paving pushed together during stops on a downhill slope (hot summer sun, hot paving, paving moves). The audio dropout problem is definitely present.

    The setup: shooting 1080p @ 60 fps. The only change to settings was to shift from multi-point metering to center metering. Going over my videos, exposure on the road may be under-exposed because of bright, sunlit clouds in the overall image.

    Here are three frames showing the focus problem. The side of the frame is appropriately sharp for shooting at around 30 mph / 50 km/h. The overhanging road signs, the traffic lights, and cars are out of focus.

    Focus #1
    [​IMG]

    In the next frame, the distant center of the image is still poorly focused. Look at the on-coming Mercedes SUV's grill and the overall vehicle. It's closer than the signs and still out of focus.

    Focus #2
    [​IMG]

    The distance to the objects in the center is less, but they remain out of focus.

    Focus #3
    [​IMG]

    This is a different scene, but the focus problem remains obvious. Note, too, the leaves on the right side of the frame are smeared even though I was braking and down to about 15-20 mph / 25-30 km/h.

    Focus #4
    [​IMG]

    Finally, here's the dropout issue displayed. The timeline (blue bar at the bottom) is zoomed in about as tight as possible. The cursor is at the next to last frame (at 14:53:53 - see the counter near the lower left of the monitor) and the dropout extends to 14:53:54 - two frame dropout.

    Audio #1
    [​IMG]

    Except for any testing, I'll probably go back to V1.15. Although some users have problems with it, having now shot 500 Gb of video with this rev., I trust it far more than V1.20.
     
  2. RBEmerson

    RBEmerson Humbled by events

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    The video is still being processed by YT while I write this, but it should be ready to be viewed at 4K fairly soon.

    The video includes the source for [/Focus #4] above. The clip ends with riding over the washboard surface mentioned earlier. The EIS does a very good job of compensating for the motion.



    ADDED: YT has posted the clip but 360 res. is ...um... rather sad. Even 1080p will show YT's compression artifacts (pixelation, mostly). 4K will be close to the truth.
    CORRECTED: frame reference
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  3. Sulev Svilponis

    Sulev Svilponis Elite

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    Am I missing something, but I never heard, that SJ7 has AF? AFAIK, all those cameras have fixed focus, that can't depend on FW version. If there are unsharp images with the new FW, then this might be related with bad interpolation or other erratic processing of images, but definitely you can't blame focusing. The blur might be caused by motion, if the shutter speed is too slow. EIS might keep the lanscape steady and sharp, but it can't stabilize those moving cars also at the same time. If there was a focusing problem, then this should appear with older FW versions too. The lens is focused in the factory and the focus is fixed with a glue.
     
  4. RBEmerson

    RBEmerson Humbled by events

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    Good point about the lens being fixed focus, but the signal is processed heavily after that. OK, optically there may not be a focus issue, but the end result does have IMHO serious problems. The video clip I'm trying to get posted on YT shows the problem more clearly.
     
  5. Sulev Svilponis

    Sulev Svilponis Elite

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    This blur is obviously caused by your praised EIS...
    Bad focusing can't produce photos with sharp details in both far and near objects, but blurry objects in between.

    It seems, that the blur occurs if objects in the frame are moving in different directions. Then the algorithm of the EIS can't handle the image correctly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  6. RBEmerson

    RBEmerson Humbled by events

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    Um, I rather doubt it's EIS. If it were, the entire frame, as the lens moves the image on the sensor, would lose detail. That's not happening. Look at the last 5-7 seconds of the clip to see the EIS working hard to correct a lot of camera motion. To give an idea of how uneven the surface is, approaching the maybe 20 yd / meter long stretch too fast can lighten the front wheel enough, while braking, to trigger the ABS on landing. Smooth this is not.

    Looking at the clip a lot, I'm more inclined to think the problem is small bright areas (headlights, taillights, traffic lights). While some degree of "bloom" (small, bright object becomes larger than it really is) is expected, and unavoidable, it seems that V1.20's response is ...what?... flawed? It appears that dealing with the bloom fuzzes an area around the light source(s), which, in turn, creates an "out of focus" appearance.

    By comparison, V1.15 shows blooming from headlights, etc. but the overall scene retains its clarity.
     
  7. Sulev Svilponis

    Sulev Svilponis Elite

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    This is Electronic Image Stabilization (or Digital Image Stabilization), not optical nor sensor shift. Electronically you can divide a frame into different subframes and apply different level of stabilisation on different parts.

    Try some shots where there are no moving objects other than landscape and keep near objects away from the frame. I am pretty sure, that the blur won't appear. If you can't reproduce the blur in these conditions, then it is the EIS fault!

    Or even better - turn the EIS off and try then!
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  8. RBEmerson

    RBEmerson Humbled by events

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    I'm talking about the same shifting that happens with looking out a car window. The scene's moving on your retinas the way a scene moves on the SJ7's sensor.

    Just after where I ended the clip, standing still, waiting for the light to change, there's blurring on the far side of the cross-road. It's near some lights from a car.

    Again, if the EIS was misbehaving, everything should be blurred any time the camera moves abruptly. That's just not happening. Moving or standing still.

    In any event, the best move is to wait while SJCam and Ambarella try to make sense of the images and clip.

    If anyone else has any stills or clips to share, that'll be a help.
     
  9. TonySosa

    TonySosa Administrator Staff Member

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    The blur is always in the same spot... seems that it may be an issue with your lens/sensor. has this always been like this?
     
  10. Sulev Svilponis

    Sulev Svilponis Elite

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    The EIS can't track every single object separadedly, because it is not so intelligent, that it can recognize every single object. It operates with separate frame areas. If you are driving with your motorbike, then left side of the frame is moving to the left and right side to the right. Top side to the up and bottom side to the down. Those movements are pretty regular and relatively easy to stabilize by algorithms. But the centre part is different - it should stay relatively steady (if you are not turning or panning), but if there is no special EIS area defined for the centre area, then there will appear joining/stitching blur of other areas. And if there is special centre area defined for the EIS, then the camera might detect movement direction according some moving object there (it is even more complicated, if there are many moving objects moving in different directions). And by attempting to stabilize this movement, it can cause blur for other objects, both moving and still.
    Just turn the EIS off and the blur should vanish.

    The blurred spot is in the very spot where the scene starts to move in different directions! The very spot, towards which you are moving.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  11. RBEmerson

    RBEmerson Humbled by events

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    The problem showed up with V1.20. The more I look at the video (I shot about 20 minutes of video). the more I'm convinced the processor is handling headlight blooming poorly. Since most of the bright lights are near the center of the frame, of course the blurring will be there, too. Around 0:07 and 0:30 there are oncoming cars that are blurry as the cross from center to left of the frame. They remain fuzzy until the they're close enough to put the camera well off the center axis (brightest area) of their headlights. The car at around 0:07 is close enough to show motion streaking. NTL the lines of the streaking are crisper horizontal lines.

    The white car in front of me sharpens up slightly as it moves through sunlight (about 0:35) before fuzzing again when it's out of the sunlight. At around 0:40 a line of cars passes from the center to far left. Compare the cars with no headlights on with the ones with their headlights on. Notice that the trees near the yellow van fuzz near the van but are clearer further up, near the tops of trees.

    Finally, check out any of my suggested videos, all shot with V1.15. I'll reload V1.15 and shoot video in similar conditions on Friday. Unfortunately, all of my earlier V1.15 video shot at home was erased.
     
  12. RBEmerson

    RBEmerson Humbled by events

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    About the lens... the center of a lens' field of view is usually the sharpest. Spherical aberration (objects are distorted and often become slightly streaked, with the long axis of the streak pointing to the center of the FOV) is more likely to show up at the edge of the FOV. That's not happening here. Since this is a fixed focus lens, if it were out of focus, the entire image should be out of focus, which isn't the case.

    Please PM so we can figure out a way to get the original files (3 x 3.9 G) to you.
     
  13. Sulev Svilponis

    Sulev Svilponis Elite

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    If there was problem related with poor lighting conditions, and the blur is caused by the slow shutter speed, then those blurry areas won't be in the centre area only.
    Did you try to switch the EIS off?

    BTW, Fixed focus does not mean that "if it were out of focus, the entire image should be out of focus." If the fixed focus is fixed too near, then only nearest objects will appear sharp. And if the fixed focus is fixed too far, then only far objects will appear sharp. If the aperture of the lens is big (that is not the case about SJ7), then it is possible, that only objects at certain distance are sharp, but other, both near and far, are blurry.
     
  14. RBEmerson

    RBEmerson Humbled by events

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    Sigh... it's not the EIS. There's 20 minutes of video from the trip, including leaving my driveway, standing in traffic, and stopping for gas. Clarity isn't a problem, light bloom is.
     
  15. Sulev Svilponis

    Sulev Svilponis Elite

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    Just try! It is the EIS!
    Light bloom at daylight? Not possible! What a light gun it should be, to reach those blurry objects in far far far away! Get real! It is poor algorithm of the EIS, leaving blurred stiching area.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  16. @Aeciohrq

    @Aeciohrq New Member

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    i've had updated my camera from 1.18. to 1.20 FW today but i didn't noticed the eyefish correction. I did some tests @ 720P SV/16:9, 1080P 16:9. Icant upload images for now, but it still eyefishing..

    Am i doing something wrong?
     
  17. Damian Holt

    Damian Holt Moderator

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    You need to turn on the distortion correction in settings for it to take effect, it’s set to off as default.
     
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  18. Sulev Svilponis

    Sulev Svilponis Elite

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    Another frame from the RBEmerson's video is a proof, that the problem is not caused by headlghts:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2017
  19. RBEmerson

    RBEmerson Humbled by events

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    1080p@60fps, EIS on, V1.15
    [​IMG]

    1080p@60fps, EIS on, V1.15
    [​IMG]

    Make of this what you will.

    Tomorrow I'll shoot some V1.15 and V1.20 over the same route. I'll post some of it and then I am done with the topic.
     
  20. RBEmerson

    RBEmerson Humbled by events

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    1080p@60fps, EIS on, V1.15
    [​IMG]

    Note the resolution of the roof in the center of the frame, the grass at the side of the frame, and the vehicle in the right mirror.
     
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